Interview 107: John Ambrose on “Understanding Michigan State University”

Author: Mark interviews John Ambrose

Ambrose, John. “Interview 107: John Ambrose on Understanding Michigan State University.” *Your College-Bound Kid*, 12 Aug. 2022, https://yourcollegeboundkid.com/2022/08/12/interview-107-john-ambrose-on-understanding-michigan-state-university/.

• John gives his backstory.
• John gives an overview of Michigan State.
• John talks about the different colleges that comprise MSU.
• John takes about MSU’s role in spearheading the land grant universities.
• John describes the MSU campus.
• John talks about what Lansing and East Lansing are like
• John shares how MSU is different from other Big ten schools
• John shares how MSU has changed in the last few decades
• John shares how MSU’s admissions process works
• John talks about an admission model they have built that really helps them to factor different high schools into their file reading.
• John explains why test scores are not necessary for MSU to read a file well.
• John talks about whether the college a student applies to impacts admissions decisions.
• John shares what colleges are the toughest to get in
• John discusses merit scholarships.
• John shares all of the new developments on campus
• John shares some of the initiatives that are being worked on
• John shares how MSU can provide support for incoming freshman
• John talks about whether MSU is looking at making their classes smaller.
• John is asked if MSU is working on improving communication with parents and students about “to do” items regarding transitioning to MSU.
• John goes more in-depth about MSU’s strongest programs John continues discussing MSU’s strongest programs.
• John goes on the hot seat in our lightning round.

Transcript

Mark 00:00

Friends, I am really excited today. I'm here with John Ambrose from Michigan State University. How you doing, John? Mark,

John Ambrose 00:07

Mark, good to see you, I'm doing fantastic. I'm so excited to be here today and looking forward to our conversation.

Mark 00:13

Well, you know that I kind of bleed green and white, so I'm going to try really hard to not be biased and give an objective interview. I'll do my best.

John Ambrose 00:24

You know how Spartans are, so I suspect that you're going to make this, you're going to make it through this fire.

Mark 00:31

Well, I have to tell you, I did, we did a spotlight a couple of months ago on that place, 60 miles away, those blue bellies in Ann Arbor. So this is like my therapy to, to cleanse my system from that way.

John Ambrose 00:43

You know we don't like to brag, but we will talk if you ask us.

Mark 00:47

Awesome. So why don't you kick us off, John, start with your personal story, anything you want to share and certainly walk us through up to what you're doing today and any admissions experience you've had.

John Ambrose 01:01

I'm a Michigander, born and raised, grew up in the city of Detroit, and here we like to tell everybody what high school we attended, because it's one of the cultural things that we do, but I attended Cass Technical High School, and from there went on to attend Western Michigan University, had a fantastic experience in Kalamazoo, and eventually ended up working in corporate America, doing corporate sales, and found my way into higher education, started at Mary Grove College, and was there about eight years, did great work with them, and moved eventually to Michigan State University, and I've been here going into my 15th year in the office of admissions the entire time, and I love the combination of higher education and a bit of the sales industry that I was involved with prior to, and that's, I think admissions fits really well into this.

Mark 01:53

No, no, that's fantastic. And, uh, I know when I was at Michigan state, boy, there were a lot of cast tech students, uh, they were everywhere. Uh, I related to what you said.

Uh, you remember the old Murray Wright high school? Does that ring a bell? Pilots. Yeah. Yeah. Well, my wife's a graduate from there. So when you, when you talked about Detroiters identifying by their high school, uh, had to get a little Murray Wright reference in there. They closed what about 15, 20 years ago now? Something like that. There were a lot of.

John Ambrose 02:21

and tested battles at Cass Tech on the hardwood and out on the field playing against Murray Wright, so.

Mark 02:29

Well, awesome. So, so John and I, we actually met in 2019 in Washington, DC. And back then you were pretty relatively new into this role. I think at that time, John, if I recall, you've been in Michigan state for a while, but you just got in that promotion.

John Ambrose 02:43

Right, so it wasn't quite a promotion then. I was interim executive director at the time, and I've only been executive director now for about a year officially.

Mark 02:51

Well, that means you did a good job as an interim and those are the hardest ones to get because, uh, people still see the warts, you know, versus the new shiny resume. So good job for you.

Absolutely. Absolutely. But John committed back then in 2019 to do this interview and, um, it's just my procrastination. You know, I just had to wait, wait for them to remove the interim tag. That was it. That's my excuse. No problem. But let's start with, with, uh, you know, I call it the basic elevator pitch. You bump into someone, uh, you know, foreign country for some reason, someone's never even heard of Michigan state and they say, Oh, you're working Michigan state. Who is Michigan state? It takes some time and tell me how you answer that question, John.

John Ambrose 03:35

Who is Michigan State in an elevator? I probably tell that person we're part of the Big 10. We're not so right in the middle of the state of Michigan. And then I would probably ask them, what's your student or grandson or granddaughter or whoever they're asking about in terms of the university piece?

What is it that their mission in life is? What's their ministry? What's that one thing that they're focused on doing once they get out of college? And from there, that allows us to talk a lot more coherently about the pathway that MSU can create for them in a couple of different ways that might make more sense than just talking about the majors that we offer or the colleges that we offer. But Michigan State is a pretty unique place and we have a lot to offer students who are looking for ways to make their mark in the world.

Mark 04:30

See, this is why I know you're, you're good at your job. We're, we're taught that we have two ears and one mouth and we're supposed to listen more in admission than talk, right?

And so you immediately turned it back to the person and asked what their needs were. But I'll follow up with that. So why don't you give an overview of the various colleges that, that comprise the university.

John Ambrose 04:48

So we've got about 13 different colleges that includes our Honors College and our Residential College programs of James Madison, Lyman Briggs, the Residential College of Arts and Humanities. And then the list, this kind of goes down from there, everywhere from our College of Agricultural and Natural Resources to our College of Music, College of Nursing, College of Vet Med, College of Education, College of Arts and Letters, College of Communication Arts and Sciences.

I'm sure I'm leaving one or two out, but it's a pretty lengthy list of colleges, but we're pretty comprehensive as a tier one research institution.

Mark 05:28

Yeah, and I'll follow up with you a little later in our interview about some of those colleges specifically. But one thing I know, John, is that MSU is often given credit for for really pioneering the land grant university movement and is really establishing the prototypical university kind of in this mold.

And what what do you feel MSU's role has been in sort of spearheading the whole land grant college movement? What does that mean and how does that shape the culture or the experience of students at Michigan State?

John Ambrose 05:58

I think a lot of people don't really understand the history of colleges and in universities. And so when they were established back in the early 1800s, you had to be white, you had to be male, and you had to have money. And that was pretty much the criteria to attend college or university.

If you were female, you couldn't get in. If you were male and white and poor, you couldn't get in. And so when the land grant piece came about, it was about the state providing land use so that a university could be established for the people of the state. And so they were donating land, and the state of Michigan gave, Michigan College at that time, gave us land in order to establish the university. And that became the prototype that other states began to utilize. And so from that point, at its very core, it's all about access. And it's not about the tradition of what college and university has been. And so we like to think of ourselves now as a global land grant university that we're providing access for students in a global format, not just from a national perspective. But we take it very seriously. Some of the others don't talk about their land grant missions as much as they used to, but for Michigan State, it's still a major piece of how we identify and recognize ourselves in the work that we do as a higher education institution.

Mark 07:28

Thank you, thank you for that. Now, I know one thing from my own experience at Michigan State, and actually I'll go all the way back to, to when I was in high school and I visited Michigan State and the first thing that blew me away was the campus. The campus was just resplendent. I mean, it was unbelievable.

And it really shaped my experience as a student at, at MSU. Um, it's a 5,300 acre campus, as you know, one of the largest in the nation, um, can you talk, describe the campus for, for those who have never been to East Lansing, never set foot on Michigan State's campus and talk about the sort of the impact the campus has on the college experience.

John Ambrose 08:12

Michigan State is located in East Lansing. Michigan, as I mentioned earlier, kind of in the heart of the, right of the middle of the mitten, if you will. So we like to show the mitten and about where Michigan State is, is right in the middle of the Palm of the mitten.

We are, as you said, a 5,300 acre campus with miles of bike trails and eligibility for students who not only like the bike, but if you like to longboard or skateboard, our roadways are well-maintained and provide great access for students to do that all across the campus. On any given day, you're gonna see thousands of students riding mopeds and moving about the campus, but it is the kind of idyllic setting that would take you back to any thought you had of a traditional college campus, from new buildings to ivy-covered buildings, but we also host seven farms that are included as a part of that 5,300 acre. We are one of the few institutions that have three medical schools that are included for human-med and osteo-med and our vet-med programs on the campus, but we brag about 50,000 students, undergrad and grad total, and we have a couple of settings across the state of Michigan that also make up part of our campus inventory. So we are kind of a campus campus, and we have a river that runs through the center of campus called the Red Cedar River, which is included as part of our fight song, and you can even stand in the area by, I'm sure what you did when you were there, the whispering pines along the river, but it's just a unique and an incredible place that almost feels like home-to-miniature land on campus because the people are friendly, they'll speak to you.

They'll ask you where you're from, they'll encourage you, and if you ever say go green, they're gonna respond, go white. So be careful about wearing the Spartan helmet and forgetting that you got it on because my wife and I were traveling a little while ago, and we were in the airport and she had on a sweatshirt and somebody hollered out, go green, and she wasn't even paying attention, and I hollered back, go white. And she looked at me, she goes, what happened? I say, honey, you got on a Michigan State sweatshirt. She's like, oh man, I did it again. You just have to know that this is one of the most unique places in the country. And markets really hard question to answer sometimes is who we really are as Spartans and what makes us different, but it's the people all day long.

And I know it sounds cliche to say, but we're that kind of place. If you think about college and college life from big 10 sports and basketball and football or baseball or even some of the other Olympic sports, all of those things you can find at MSU, but mostly you can find the kind of college experience that you're looking for.

Mark 11:10

You took it out, took me down memory lane with some of those things. You know, some of my favorite places, uh, the red Cedar river. I just love that place.

Walking along, come along the sidewalk on the red Cedar river. And then, um, like you said, you've got different architectural style. So I started out in Campbell hall, uh, my freshman year. And so, you know, Campbell, it's like that typical sort of Ivy style, old style, traditional, almost a Hogwarts. Yes. A Hogwarts kind of vibe. You can go over and eat at Yacly or some of those other places around there, which were really nice. And then I transitioned over to, to Holden and that was completely different style, you know, of, of, of campus over there.

And so I don't know if this is still true, but at one time Michigan state had the most residential dorms of any school in the, in the country by a long shot.

John Ambrose 12:01

We don't have the most anymore, but we do still have one of the largest residential campuses in the country.

Mark 12:08

And, you know, another one of my favorite things are those two golf courses on campus. I played them both a lot. Yeah. I know. That's a great perk.

I remember, you know, I stayed, I stayed, stayed there a couple of summers and I remember one time, uh, walking 45 holes and I couldn't do that now. And of course I'm in Georgia, so we just use golf carts here now, but Oh man, that's a lot of golf, man. Well, I was competing with my buddy and I had to, I had to try to beat him. So, you know, that is.

John Ambrose 12:38

I did 36 in my youth and we were in South Carolina in the heat and I can tell you it took a lot out of a young man so I can imagine.

Mark 12:46

Well, it's nice to be 20, you know, do things you can't do in your 50s, so it's all good. So we had our listeners send in, well, you know, actually, before I say this, you commented on one thing, John, that I, I was going to mention this to you and I had a question ahead of time and I didn't.

But I want to ask it because you commented on something that is very distinctive of a Michigan State and that is the friendliness of the people. It is unbelievable to me how friendly the school is. And I'm wondering if you have a theory on just where that friendliness comes from, because not every school is that way. Mark, I don't know.

John Ambrose 13:26

I mean, I mean, I visited a lot of universities across the country during the 20 plus years that I've been doing this work and it's amazing that to me, every campus, every university, they have a personality, and you can feel that energy when you arrive, and you were talking about our friends down the road, 60 miles, there's a very distinct difference between them. You know, there's a very distinct difference between visiting our campus and Wayne State University, or Western Michigan University, or Duke, or Vanderbilt, University of Tennessee, Howard. All of them have a different kind of energy when you get there, and if you pay attention, it's not hard to see. It just is one of those kind of places that's very welcoming, and I've got to believe that it had to start at the very beginning, because I don't know too many universities that change their personalities.

A lot of things will change over the years, from the topography to the amount of geography that they actually host, they'll tear down old buildings and put up new ones, but typically the personality never changes, so that's a pretty interesting note, but I don't know where it really comes from. Some have said that it is very much part of the Midwest attitude, and you and I both know that because we're in the middle of the state, and where we are surrounded by the five Great Lakes, it's still a great place to be, and we get a lot of Midwest attitude, especially with the automotive industry being in Detroit, and also between Chicago and Detroit, you're going to get a little bit of that feel.

Mark 15:12

Yeah, I think there's probably some truth to that. There's a saying that Midwest nice. Yeah. And I think there's some, some of that.

Why don't you say a word about sort of Lansing too? Cause East Lansing is right by Lansing and you know, our biggest audiences in California, not everybody may be familiar with Lansing.

John Ambrose 15:28

Yeah, as I mentioned a moment ago, we're kind of nestled right between Detroit and Chicago. So we're about equal distance between the two. There's a little bit longer trying to get around the lake to get over to Chicago. So that's the only difference there, but East Lansing is slightly different than Lansing. And they are two separate cities, but they are very much neighbors and partners and collaborators and everything from politics to business and education.

And Michigan State is in East Lansing, but we are and support the city of Lansing in a number of ways from the residents who work on campus to the students who come from the city, to even the work that we do with the politicians from Lansing. But Lansing happens to be the capital of the state of Michigan. It is also where the governor and our state legislators do their work on a daily basis. So our students have access to all of those individuals and have an opportunity to work with them. And so for our friends in California or along the West Coast, we offer you four seasons. So you get fall, spring, winter, and summer. And I know you guys mostly deal with spring and summer, but you get an opportunity here to experience snow. And actually California happens to be our second largest feeder state for the outside of the state of Michigan. So we get nearly 200 students every year, undergraduate from the state of California. So we love our California friends and a lot of unique opportunities at Michigan State for California residents.

So we're a little different than the California system. So students can actually come here and graduate in four years. And so that means that you get a year jumpstart on getting started with your career. And you also have the opportunity to not have a year worth of educational debt tacked on to do year five. There are some programs here that are five years like our engineering programs, some of those degree programs are, but students can do it in four and graduate.

Mark 17:40

Thank you. Now we had a number of listeners send questions in. And so I'm going to transition and, and, and read these, um, especially Illinois with three from Illinois, um, and then one from Ohio and one from Michigan. So, um, um, and one from California.

So we, we had the opportunity. This is the question. Uh, this question is actually from a student named summer from Illinois. We had the opportunity to visit several big 10 universities and many offer similar experiences for students, such as study abroad, many clubs to join, ways to get involved, school spirit, fantastic alumni network, job placement, recruiting, student support systems. Can you explain what sets Michigan state apart from other big 10 universities? What is unique about MSU? Um, and actually this is a, I think it's a great question because I was just looking up, you know, according to Princeton review, some of biggest MSU's biggest overlaps are University of Michigan, Purdue, Indiana, and the University of Illinois. So I guess that's what she's getting at.

John Ambrose 18:37

We do overlap applications with those schools, especially for our College of Business and Engineering. And now we're starting to see a lot of overlap as well from our College of Natural Science major programs as well.

This is always a hard question to answer because if you're just looking at the functional things that we do, those transactional things, you're right. We all have that. And I was talking earlier about the difference is our people. And I'll also say, we don't brag. And that makes us different. And not that the others do, but there's a difference in how we go about what we do. We work every day to make life for all people better and mostly in whatever community. And you'll see it played out in any Spartan alum's life. You will find them active in their community in big ways, in medium ways, and in small ways, whether it's part of the PTO or a part of running for office in their local community, or maybe it's something even on a grander scale where they started a nonprofit organization to assist and help with some other group in the community that needs help and support. But we're about people and all of our research, all of our teaching methods, our access and opportunities.

We do all of these so that we can provide students an opportunity that's not guided by traditional college thinking, but more about Spartan thinking. And so when I say that, I mean, we're a large university with small college attributes, from our residential college programs to our approach to recruitment. We're just looking to be able to connect with people and we want individuals who want to connect with people. If you're not really interested in helping people and you've got grand dreams, this might not be the personality or the institution that really fits you, but I would tell you a Spartan is not a Wolverine. A Spartan is not a Buckeye. We share and celebrate each other in the Big Ten very well. And we compete, as everybody knows, but there's just something that's a bit more unique about being a Spartan. But our biggest thing is about really getting the job done. We just do. So we don't brag, we just do it, we get the job done.

And if you ask this, you would be shocked to find out all of the things that we've been doing for decades. So what was that one commercial years ago? There was a company that used to advertise that they did a lot of products or a lot of services behind the scene and you never knew that they were so integrated and involved in the process. So we're a lot like that company.

Mark 21:29

Well, I think you said, you said it, well, every school's got a different personality and you just kind of feel it when you visit, um, and you know, it sounds like a bit of a cop out, but ultimately Mark, look at the work.

John Ambrose 21:40

your door. I mean this podcast alone is evidence of the type of support and help.

So individuals are looking for answers to questions. This process of navigating college admissions is difficult and complex these days and we've had a lot of changes in the last two years with the impact of the

Mark 22:07

Well, thank you for that. Our next question comes from Bobby from Ohio, but she's got some Michigan state ties within her family. So she says, how has MSU changed or stayed the same from the eighties and nineties? Will my kid have a similar experience to my family members who went there back in the day?

And if the experience is different, how do you think it would be different?

John Ambrose 22:26

Bobby, the world changes, and yet some things stay the same. I think you're going to find that at most institutions, and MSU is no different, that that premise still holds true for us too.

And so the courses and the structures on campus will be different. And to some degree, the culture will change, but the identity of a Spartan has not changed since 1855. And that will remain a constant as long as MSU is MSU.

Mark 22:50

you There you go. And now we have Kelly from Illinois and she wants to know a little bit more about MSU's admission process. She wants to know what happens when a student hits send and the apply button. What factors does admissions consider when evaluating an applicant?

Sure, Rock.

John Ambrose 23:09

I can share that information with you. A student's application has to be loaded into our system. And this is a manual and automated process. So manually, we have to match all of the supporting documents or credentials that come in because they don't typically come in with the application. So the transcripts, the personal statements, some of those types of things, when they come in have to be matched up and that requires a human to do those. So it takes a little while for us to do that, especially when we've got 57,000 plus applications coming in on an annual basis.

But once the file's complete, it goes to the council that's assigned to the school to review it. And that person will make a recommendation. From there, it will go to a committee for a final decision. If the reviewer and the committee agree on that decision, then that decision will go to the student. If not, it's returned to reviewer for additional comment. So we're looking for students who've displayed a consistent academic track record, who've challenged themselves by taking some rigorous courses, completed a college prep curriculum, hopefully have engaged in leadership activities. And that doesn't necessarily mean being a leader, but participating in activities that could be seen or viewed as being a leader. They can share their perspective on who they are, but how they think through their personal statements. So those are the things that we kind of pull together to take a look at the whole student.

Mark 24:41

So clearly you're looking at a transcript. You've mentioned the personal statement. You've said, look, you know, maybe there's some leadership. So I'm assuming you're looking at activities and what people have been involved in as, as one factor.

I know Michigan state went permanently. If I'm correct, test optional recently. Am I correct about that? I know this is.

John Ambrose 25:01

So for the next five years, we're going to be test optional. We wanted to take a look at the impact of test optional on our graduation rates. So we've been very focused on closing the gap on our graduation rates for all students across the campus. And so that's one of the big things that we're taking a look at.

So we are test optional. So if a student decides that they don't want to submit a test, they can still be considered for merit aid, as well as admission to the university.

Mark 25:30

With the decision to go test optional, is there any other aspect of the application that you feel is getting a little bit more attention now, now that that one piece is, is removed in some instances? So we had a.

John Ambrose 25:41

piece that we've had for decades. So one of the professors on campus created this formula a while ago, but it's what we call an MSU calculated GPA.

And basically it takes a look at students coming from a particular high school. So you mentioned your wife being at Murray Wright years ago. And so we would look at all of the students who come from Murray Wright over a particular time and what was their academic GPA at Michigan State after their first semester.

Mark 26:12

That is great. Georgia Tech does that. I have not known of anybody else to do that.

So you guys are building models so you can sort of see how schools, yeah, how certain schools, how much grade inflation or how grades translate from one school to another.

John Ambrose 26:26

And that's the big thing. So I wouldn't call it great inflation, but there's a definite difference.

And so if you and I both had a 3.5 and we attended different high schools, your academic experience would obviously be different than mine. But students coming from your high school with a 3.5 at Michigan State the first semester, they might end up with a 3.3, which is common that there will be some decrease because of transition A and B because of the rigor and the learning is at a different level coming from high school, going into college. Mine might be a 3.5, but mine might be a 3.1 just because of the difference, again, in the academic experiences. Still both great students after the first semester, 3.1 to 3.3, but we have that information because we found that we tend to get applications from students from the same high schools. And on occasion, obviously every year, we get some that are from different schools we've never seen before, but typically we have a high repeat ratio of applications from the schools that we've seen.

Mark 27:34

receive. With Castec being one of them. I know that. So I get excited about this because I, you know, when I did admissions, I actually built a model like this myself for admission office and I it was incredibly helpful. And I'm surprised I don't see more schools doing it.

And I'm sure there's more that do it that I don't know. Do you also do this for out of state applicants if where you have, you know, sizable numbers? Is it only an in state thing?

John Ambrose 28:03

No, it's uh, it's out-of-state and international And so in a place where maybe we have a student from a new school we've never gotten an application from then we would just use our Youth use a cumulative average based on the geography of where they come from So we break ours up into Michigan resident rest of the country and then all international

Mark 28:26

And is this something that every admissions reader sort of has access to when they're reading a file, they can sort of see the data and say, you know, grades from this school, Hey, this school, a kid with a three, five ends up with a three, five, but at this school, three, five goes down to a two, nine, like, is that something that readers have access to?

John Ambrose 28:43

readers have access to see that, yeah. But, you know, so that's why we didn't have to ask for any additional information beyond the test score. When you think about what the test score was really supposed to be telling us, it really is the same thing. So we felt highly confident that the information we were getting from the calculated GPA would be accurate.

And then sometimes we get the question, what happens if the curriculum at a school changes? Do you guys automatically change it? No, we look to see what the experiences are from those students. So if a school didn't offer IB before and they began offering IB, and you saw an increase in the rigor at that particular school, it might take one or two years, but you might expect to see an increase in the MSU calculated GPA. So that same student with a 3.5, who may have had a 3.1 before, now has a 3.2 or a 3.25 at MSU because of that change in the curriculum at the school. And consequently, it could also go the same way.

Mark 29:53

And and are you recalculating GPAs because there's so many scales out there and are you just going with what's on the transcript? I mean some people go with what's on the trail

John Ambrose 30:01

Yeah, we go with what's on the transcript for the most part. We do recalculate for those that are not on a four-point scale.

Mark 30:08

Okay. And are you using weighted or unweighted for your, you know, when you're, if they, if they provide both on, on a transcript?

John Ambrose 30:14

most of the time we're using the, the weighted.

Mark 30:19

That's great, that's great. Talk to me a little bit about the role an individual school plays in the decision. So School of Engineering is a different school than School of Agriculture, right? And so what role does the individual school that the student is interested in play?

And are there times that the actual major within the school plays a role as well in the assessment, like, oh, this student wants to do mechanical engineering. We know that's one of our harder programs. Tell me a little bit about that. That's always something people are interested in.

John Ambrose 30:57

So at Michigan State, we don't have that as a part of our admissions criteria. So we do admissions to the university. So those other programs that you're talking about that have or require a higher level of rigor, those students will have to apply secondary. So we have a secondary process.

So the College of Business has one, the College of Engineering has one. So typically when students are admitted, they're not necessarily admitted directly to the college or major. So we're admitting to the university, you have declared that this is the college or major that you would like to have as your major or to serve as your major. And in those cases, some students will have to apply to a secondary application process after they complete a certain number of prerequisites. But there are other colleges like the College of Education and College of Communication Arts. The secondary application process is not required.

So once you kind of declare you come in, you have to declare a major by your junior year, but technically you're in the college when you come into the university. So you're taking the courses that are required for you to declare your major by your junior year.

Mark 32:08

So business and engineering are ones we apply, you know, separately in, um, any other, any other schools besides those that, you know, once you're a current student, you need to sort of prove yourself with your MSU GPA and then apply besides business and engineering. Uh, nursing.

And what kind of grade point average are those schools looking for at MSU, uh, to be competitive? I'm assuming that happens what end of the sophomore year or some point in the middle of the sophomore year, you know?

John Ambrose 32:36

So our College of Engineering is at MIT when ready. Our College of Business is moving into that space as well. So if a student's got AP classes and some of those translate to course credit, then they might be able to move into the situation a little faster in terms of applying. But typically, students say somewhere between 3, 3 and higher, just depending on the college and or the major or program.

But they are competitive, and some of them have space capacities where we've got to worry about that. But we get a lot of students who apply. So College of Business is actually our number one college in terms of applications. So we got over 10,000 applications this year for our College of Business.

Mark 33:25

You mentioned merit scholarships before and you mentioned that even without testing, now students are still eligible. Can you talk about a few of the merit scholarships and sort of give a sense of sort of what kind of profile a student would need to have to sort of be competitive?

John Ambrose 33:43

So we have a variety of scholarships, and it really depends on where you're coming from. So if you're coming from Michigan, those started at 3.3. If you're coming from outside the state of Michigan, those started about a 3.0. Our international students, depending on the type or kind and where in the world they're coming from, those will typically also started about a 3.0 GPA, but most of them are a little bit higher. Those are the ones that we offer out of the Office of Admissions.

There are other scholarships that students are eligible for, especially for Honors College. So we actually have a competition, which we call our Alumni Distinguished Scholarship Competition. And no student's GPA started at 3.8 and go up, got to be in the top 5% of their class and taken a reasonable number of the rigorous courses that are available, so AP, IB, Honors Colleges, or Honors Classes. Just depends on what they've got available to them. So if you're at a school that doesn't offer Honors or AP or IB, you wouldn't be excluded from consideration for the Honors College.

Mark 34:53

Thank you. That's awesome, John.

We had a question also that came in from Vince, who is one of our co-hosts. He's also a college counselor from Los Angeles. And he wants to know what's on Michigan State's bucket list in terms of like strategic priorities, big initiatives, you know, that the school is looking to implement the next, you know, five or 10 years or so.

John Ambrose 35:18

So when President Stanley came in, our new president, he immediately put together a new strategic plan and a new DEI strategic plan. So we are off to the races on that.

As I mentioned before, closing the graduation gap. And so we've had two major initiatives that we've done in the last five years. So we're continuing to see the benefits of those. But one of those was a 15 block grant, tuition grant. I'm not a grant, a block tuition model. And so in that block tuition model, we highly recommended that students take at least 15 credit hours per semester so that they would be on track to graduate in four years. So that would improve our six-year graduation rate. It would also begin to help students cut down on the amount of debt that they were carrying because they'd be graduating sooner. The second one was a two-year live-on requirement for first-year students, requiring them to live on campus. So our research showed that those students tended to have higher grades and two tended to graduate faster than those students who moved off campus after their first year.

So we went back to upholding that ruling for a two-year live-on requirement. In terms of other things that are on the bucket list, we have recently announced that we're building a multicultural center. After the president came in, he had conversations with our student of color groups on campus, the affinity groups, and many of them were lobbying and have been lobbying for quite a few years about having a standalone physical building. They've got space currently in our student union on campus, but we are going to be engaging in building a new building for a multicultural center.

Other things that we're going to be working on pretty diligently are improving access and being very deliberate about it, similarly for faculty and staff as well. So the president and the provost have been working really hard to make a lot of those things happen, and so we are starting to see the fruits of some of their labor and effort, but they are definitely living up to the pieces that they've put out there. Other things that you're likely to see are upgrades to our physical facilities for our intramural buildings. So they are in need of some updates and upgrades.

We started when Vice President Gore came in. Well, he came in almost the same time I did about 14 years ago. And so when he came on board, he immediately started working to upgrade our dining facilities. So if you've been back to campus and had an opportunity to go over to Brody, you know what I mean. But the dining facilities now are part of the shining stars on campus. And so just a phenomenal, phenomenal operation of what we do. So if you think about the dining facilities of old, there was this one big kitchen, kind of a cafeteria, and people would push out food on these big rolling carts and drop them off on the steaming stations.

John Ambrose 38:31

That's not the case anymore. There are private kitchens now for each of the different types of food and everything is made fresh daily. So it is a really nice thing.

They've even found a way to recycle the leftover food or the old food or the uneaten food that traditionally would have gone to the landfill. So we recycle that food now and turn it into compost and are now found enough farmers and others who are purchasing that compost to use as fertilizer. So Michigan State has done a great job in terms of just continuing to be one of the leaders in sustainability on the campus.

Mark 39:14

Wow, that's exciting. I'm a great answer to that question. And I'm kind of excited about a lot of things you said.

I'm certainly excited to see, uh, for students of color will have housing for affinity groups. I know that can be extremely important to help people in their transition. And Holden Hall used to have, uh, a whole, uh, giant room for the black caucus there that, um, I've found it'd be extremely helpful when I was a student. So, so it won't have.

John Ambrose 39:40

any housing, but it is going to have spaces where those groups can meet, and host programs and do different kinds of events and things of that nature. So it'll have event space for them as well.

So I think they just identified the architect that's going to lead the effort for the design of the project.

Mark 39:58

facility. Nice, nice.

And our last question from a listener comes from Jeff from Illinois. He says, MSU is extremely large. How does the university help to support students, especially freshmen, so they don't get lost in the masses?

John Ambrose 40:13

One of the things that we did say almost 10 years ago, we broke the campus up into five distinct neighborhoods. And by doing that, it allowed us to decentralize major services that the students would often use, but it would make it easier for them to engage. So as an example, typically when you were there, you weren't far from the clinic, the health clinic from where you were, but it was still a decent, it would have been a decent 10, 15 minute walk. So it's not like you needed to drive or catch the bus to get there, but there are other places on campus where during the winter time, if you're not feeling well and you got a cold and the only place you can get to is the clinic, you got to make that hoof. So what they did was they put nurse practitioners in each of the neighborhoods. And so those nurse practitioners are there now to really do more of some preemptive work. So now if instead of waiting until you got a full blown cold and are sick to go to the clinic, you might stop in and see the nurse practitioner because you've got a relationship with him or her that allows you to say, hey, you know what? I'm not feeling real good right now. I got a little bit of a sniffle or something. Could you take a look or prescribe something for me? And we found that that has been a real big plus in terms of being able to make MSU feel smaller than it actually is for students in terms of dealing with that.

And so that's just one of the things that we've done. We are currently working right now to do an assessment on all of our classes to really figure out how we can continue to close this graduation gap. So as we continue to work on that research and look at that analysis of how do we do that, we're looking at the actual classes. We're looking at and trying to figure out how do we help students who are not doing well in a particular course. And we're trying to find ways to help improve the services offered to those students so that we wanna see them graduate. We know that if we admitted you, you're qualified to be a Spartan. You're qualified to be a Spartan alum. The question becomes what are we willing to do in order to help them get through it? And that becomes the big piece.

Mark 42:40

for us. That's great.

And my biggest complaint at Michigan State was were large classes. I've been reading about learning living communities that Michigan State has now that I don't remember. You know, of course, I was there in the 80s. Has Michigan State done anything to address class size?

John Ambrose 42:58

That's part of what we're working on. So we're looking at those things in terms of what is the optimal class size for, you know, particular students. But one of the benefits that's come out of the pandemic is we had to take every class we have up online. And so that's allowing now for a different kind of a field where students and instructors are now beginning to adapt K through 16. So all of us are having to learn online. We're having to also teach ourselves a little bit in terms of what is your learning style? How do you learn? How do you help yourself? You know, can you teach yourself some things? And the answer to both of those are yes, you can definitely teach yourself some things. But if you don't know what your learning style is, you may not understand the best way for you to grasp the content or to really consume it. So I think that's gonna be the big piece to move things forward.

But those kinds of things and that as we adapt to them are gonna provide a greater experience for students who might suffer from being in a big classroom setting. So as you know, with everybody being on Zoom, now you don't quite get the same energy that you would being in a large room, but you do very much get a different experience that can be a little bit more, that feels one-on-one, if you will, or more kind of like a round robin discussion with just a few people.

Mark 44:24

So are the online classes going to continue post-pandemic as an option for students? It sounds like that's what I'm hearing.

John Ambrose 44:34

I would say yes, we have not made any final decisions, but we are looking at this has now given us the ability to offer possibly degrees online, where undergraduate degrees, so we didn't have that option before. It was available for some graduate degree programs, but not really at the undergraduate level.

So if we're able to offer these, some degree programs online, I think it would be a great thing for the university to do moving forward. So at this point, a lot of things are explorative, and we're taking a look at how can we make it work, because online education is not new, but there are a lot of people who start college who don't finish and are not really pushing into the returning adult marketplace, but that market itself is huge. And so I think a number of institutions are asking themselves, how can we tap into it now that we've got this resource? Because having all of your classes up online is a resource. Now the question is, how can we use that to improve access to the Spartan experience for more people?

Mark 45:43

No, I think it's great and I think this is what schools need to do, you know, not just thinking about the 18 year old and think about that non-traditional student, um, the student that can't come to your campus. I know Morehouse in Atlanta has recently launched an online degree and it's tapping into a whole different group of students that, you know, couldn't come to Atlanta and go to school, but can still have some aspect of the Morehouse experience. And so, um, obviously it could be a good revenue generator for schools, but it's also a great way to reach more international students. And I think this is the wave of the future.

So it's nice to see, uh, MSU being cutting edge on that. You know, John, I misspoke, um, I almost forgot Lorraine. How could I forget Lorraine? Lorraine's from Michigan and she's actually a Michigan state grad herself. And her son, she says I'm a Michigan state grad myself. My son visited and chose MSU because of the rise LLC for environmental study type majors at Bailey Brody. He liked the small greenhouse mushroom room, beehives connected to the dorm. Then she says, I found the communication process to be complicated though. I wanted a simple automated email bot to update progress before deadlines to avoid extra fees and penalties, not an invasion of privacy between student and university. This would be good for my financial help and my balance. Is Michigan state working on improving anything along those lines? Yes.

John Ambrose 47:04

are. So I'm glad Lorraine asked this question.

A lot of people don't know, but MSU developed its own student information system, and basically we operated it for decades until we could no longer get service on our equipment. And so over the last three years, we've implemented a new system for the entire university. And as you can imagine with an organization as large as ours, that was no easy feat to do and required a lot of meetings and even implementation process. We brought in some experts from the outside to help us with that. Additionally, the Office of Admissions started implementing a new business application called Slate so that we could communicate with families a little better than we were able to do before and create some of that automation. And so we just completed our first year up, but we built it the entire way. So we were, you know, get one piece built, use it, and they're building the next piece before waiting for us to get there. So it was quite an arduous process, but I'm glad to say that we've completed it.

We've still got a lot of work to do within it, but she should and others will see an increase in the communication coming from the university. It's one of the big things that we're talking about. But if you imagine having knee surgery and having to learn to walk all over again, that's what's happening with us with our new student information system. So we know what to do, but you know, with this new knee or new hip, you may not understand the full range of what's possible yet until you get some miles on it. So that's what we're trying to do now is get some miles on this new system and figure out what it can and can't do and what other kinds of changes we need to do in order to elevate and get our service model back up to snuff so that we are providing students and families with the most up-to-date information and reminders so that they don't miss deadline dates and that kind of stuff.

Mark 49:08

You're going to love slate. I mean, they literally have pretty much a 100% retention rate. And, uh, for do already. Yeah. For 100 colleges using it. I mean, I've yet to mean that they have, they got to have that one of the highest net promoter scores out there. Um, so it's just been, you know, that's just been, I'm really happy to hear that. It's been a real asset to schools. Um, thank you know, Alexander Clark, a brilliant guy who's founded tech. Technolutions, the parent company is doing good stuff. So good stuff there.

So, so Lorraine mentioned the rise LLC program for environmental studies majors. I'm just going to ask you about some of, um, you know, really extremely strong programs that Michigan state has and just have you make a comment or two, whatever pops in, in your head on, on them. And that's one of them. Um, anything you want to say at all, John, on, on, on the environmental studies majors. Sure.

John Ambrose 50:00

So the RISE program stands for residential initiative on the study of the environment. And so the program is interdisciplinary among seven colleges on the campus. It's a residential program, it's competitive, students have to apply, but it offers them hands-on experience through projects and co-curricular opportunities to really help them explore the world of sustainability and to help them develop their career interests so that they can figure out how they want to engage the world from the lens of being environmentally sustainable.

Mark 50:35

That's great. And once again, Michigan State just has these amazing programs that, you know, a lot of the different rankings out there have Michigan State anywhere from number one to top five in the country on a number of them.

One that was strong even when I was there was hospitality. I know the hotels on campus and students get an opportunity to do internships at the hotel. Talk to us a little bit about hospitality majors at Michigan State.

John Ambrose 51:01

Mark, you started this, so I already told you, we don't brag, right? So we start talking about- But I gave you a softball, I gave you a land- I'm just saying, we start talking about number one, number two with this. I don't wanna seem like I'm going back on it, but these are things we are definitely proud of, but more than that, these are the kinds of programs that are making a difference.

It's not always what it sounds, and hospitality is one of them. So despite the fact that it's the second oldest in the nation, it's number one among public universities, but there's a minor in real estate that a lot of people don't know that students can get. They have a 98% placement rate following graduation. Faculty are among the best in the industry and research and expertise, but these students will not just run restaurants, they will run the chain or parent organization that runs these restaurants. They lead and manage some of the leading hotel chains in the country. They will teach you and students will get experience in everything from casinos to resorts and just learning how to even purchase those kinds of properties, much less run and operate them. So the exposure that the students in hospitality get is bar none. It is one of, I think, our best programs on campus that give students access to global experience, access to research, but access again to some of the greatest minds in the world of hospitality, but not to mention the alumni base. They are fanatical about coming back and bringing Spartans along, and I challenge anybody. The next time you check into a hotel, you ask to see if one of the managers or area managers and ask them where they got the degree from. One out of three are probably gonna be a Michigan State alum.

Mark 53:05

Wow, that's powerful. Talk to me about Pre-Vet, which I know is another very strong program.

John Ambrose 53:11

So pre-vet's not really a degree program, but it is for freshmen and sophomores who want to become vets. So this program allows a student to apply for the Vet Med program of their choosing.

So not just at Michigan State, but they could select when they're ready for their doctorate or Vet Med program. So the unique thing about this one is they take one course for a few weeks with intense focus on a particular organ system. So in an animal. And that's what they do to help them get focused on it. But it's a real hands-on experience for the students. They also get access to all seven of our farms and also some study abroad programs to help them enrich their experience and exposure. So it's a full complement to really prepare them to be the best vet that they can.

Mark 54:01

Awesome, awesome. And education. I mean, I see Michigan State constantly and I know that rankings are subjective and there's different people that do it out there, but when you're consistently at the top by multiple people, you know that it's very, very good. You can quibble about whether you're three or five or one or six or whatever, but I know Michigan State is extremely high in a number of education programs, including at the grad school level.

What do you want to say about education?

John Ambrose 54:29

You pretty much said it. Look, our grad program has been number one in the nation for 28 consecutive years. I think they call that a dynasty by now, but we're about to.

Mark 54:38

Be sure you're not into bragging. You're starting to make me wonder about that, John.

John Ambrose 54:44

I'm just saying, man, look, we've got- Not bragging on his facts, right? That's factual, but that's a long time to be number one.

And people often ask, like, you know, what is the difference in what we do? And we were one of the first to create a year-long teacher prep program. We also have what we call our Urban Educator Cohort Program to help individuals who think that they wanna go into an urban area and teach. We also have a Global Educator Cohort Program for those that think they wanna go abroad and teach, whether it's ESL classes, or just to teach on a particular subject matter. But our education program allows students to begin teaching their first year. So our freshmen are in classrooms teaching. They're in classrooms observing. They're getting exposed to the thing that they wanna do, and we do that.

We just hired a new dean for the College of Education. His name is Dr. Gerardo Jackson. He's a distinguished professor from UW-Madison and a leading researcher in the industry right now. So we're glad that he's gonna be joining us here soon and looking forward to him really helping us to go to the next level and maintaining that 28 consecutive year record.

Mark 56:04

And talk to me about engineering. You alluded to it earlier when we were talking about one of the programs that's got, you know, selective and competitive direct admissions. Um, but what else do you want to say?

I know every big 10 school has really strong engineering, but anything you want to say about Michigan state?

John Ambrose 56:19

We've got 14 different majors in our College of Engineering. It's one of the largest and oldest in the country.

We've got options for students to double major or to minor in other subjects that they might have an interest in. We've got diversity programs. We've got one specific for women in engineering that encourages and supports women in navigating a male-dominated industry. We also have a residential program within the College of Engineering. It's called CORE, Cornerstone Engineering and Residential Experience. It's a program for first-year students to really help them understand and explore the world of engineering from a perspective of community and problem solvers.

So, you know, when we generally define an engineer, it's someone who solves problems. But a lot of times students come in with preconceived notions about what an engineer can and can't do or the kinds of things that they've only experienced. So this particular program exposes them to the full world of community involvement and what it means to be a problem solver. So, you know, as an engineer, you learn the technique for how to solve a problem. The question is, can you apply that technique to other areas that may not involve the traditional kinds of things that we think of as an engineer? And I think they do a fantastic job.

Mark 57:43

That's great. Talk to us about supply chain management, another program that's really strong.

John Ambrose 57:48

Our supply chain management is number one in undergraduate and graduate programs jointly. Students can earn a bachelor, master's or a PhD. When you think about the crisis that's happening now with supply chain issues, our graduates are in an even greater demand and they also have a high 90 degree job placement rate following graduation.

So just a phenomenal program that really helps students to understand the world in a different way. So I would encourage students who have a mindset for the details and are very highly organized that this might be the kind of program that they consider.

Mark 58:28

And I have to ask you about ag agricultural sciences. You know, I remember as a student, the blue belly 60 miles down the road there. I remember games they would taunt us cow college, cow college and all that. So, Hey, you know, ag sciences, it's a strong program. What do you want to say?

John Ambrose 58:44

sciences, houses, things like ag tech. So for those students who might not want to do a four year degree, we have our ag tech program that allows you to get a certification. We've got a unique program that we do jointly up at one of the community colleges up in Northern Michigan. And students there can actually build their own drone. And we get them a drone license so they can fly it, but they build it, they learn and get a license to fly it.

And then almost instinctively, they're able to find work because now with all of the farming that's available in Northern Michigan, especially with the vineyards and the orchards that are up there, you can use those drones to identify problem areas with the crops now a lot faster because you've got the access of the drone. But better than that, you can also treat that one area without having to crop dust the entire field or the entire farm. So a lot of unique things like that. We've got some stuff going on with them, with Vitner learning to make wine and also doing distilling. Packaging is also a part of our agricultural sciences. But look, we offer production for crops and food science and dietetics, which is one of the oldest and best programs in the country, as well as nutrition. But the business aspect of ag, when you think about it, any area that you really want to work in related to ag sciences, we offer. And that's one of the unique differences about ours. Our program even includes forestry. And we just got a multimillion dollar grant. This is gonna blow you away. We've got a multimillion dollar grant to do work on maple syrup.

Mark 01:00:26

Hello.

John Ambrose 01:00:28

that's cool so you know but we've got a i mean we've got a robust industry here with our fisheries and wildlife and so all of those are a part of the program as well including parks and recreation i just did yesterday a reference call for an alum who's going to be working for a company that provides for provides experiences that are kind of outdoor excursions to explore the state of michigan and this young man spent 11 years in malawi i'm sorry he spent um five years in malawi in the peace corps and has traveled all over the world he's traveled like 45 countries and just a phenomenal alum and a great guy but a great job for him so he's going to be able to expose people to more of uh kinds of things that exist here in michigan so as a i mean for math sciences everything from the farms to the woods uh we got it covered you know

Mark 01:01:31

Yeah, that was very great answer. And you mentioned this before, but business marketing, last I checked 18% of all degrees are in the business marketing realm.

So any any any particular programs you want to highlight there, John?

John Ambrose 01:01:44

mostly in our master's degree area. So we're number one there in the MS marketing for research. We're number one in our business to business marketing research for productivity. But a lot of that trickles down into our undergraduate experience for our students as well who decide to go into business marketing.

But marketing is a lot different than I think some people come to realize. It really has now become more about data and about research and really understanding people's buying habits. How do you sell a company to this particular population versus this particular population? Yeah, we're all in the US, but there's something different about a borough and a township. Sure. Right, so, but they're heavily engaged, everything from sales and sales management to, as I said, to research, but really top notch.

Mark 01:02:39

And the last one I'm going to ask you about, I'll ask you about a few special colleges that were special when I was there. I know they are still today, but before we get to that, Communications Journalism.

What do you want to say about this? I know another very strong program.

John Ambrose 01:02:53

This one is definitely strong. So we were the first college of communication in the country and has been leading since 1955.

Right now we're number three in the world for communication, number one in communication and media studies, number six in game design. We've got 20 different programs under the college with about 3,200 students enrolled. And this is just one of those things where we have state-of-the-art facilities and if students are really interested and want to hone their craft. I mean, we've even got a news studio where students can actually go in and practice their storytelling abilities to become news anchors. As a matter of fact, I'm working with them on a project now to do something specifically for admissions and recruitment.

Mark 01:03:41

Oh, that's fantastic. That is great.

Well, let's talk about three very special colleges that Michigan state has. Um, my biggest regret is that I never either, you know, was in the Honors College. I wish I would have applied. I did well. I just didn't know that much about it or James Madison, which I think I would have absolutely loved. So talk to me about three things. The Honors College, James Madison, and Lyman Briggs.

John Ambrose 01:04:05

Our Honors College is also one of the oldest in the country and serves some of the brightest students in the world. Some unique things about it, students have an opportunity to do research directly with professors coming in their freshman year. And you don't have to be in the Honors College to do that, but those individuals have more direct contact to faculty to do that through the Honors College. Additionally, they don't quite have the same set of curricular requirements that some of the other students do.

So when you think about traditional plan for prerequisites, you've got to take these series of courses. All of theirs is completely flexible. So regardless of what their major is, they have the ability to self-select and now can explore more options through the Honors College. Additionally, there are not specific Honors College courses that they have to take. They can take their regular courses and make them an Honors option by doing some additional work. And they just work that out with the faculty member. And we found that our students really love that kind of flexibility coming into the Honors College, but it's a great program and I'm glad to see that we are also pushing on increasing access to diversity for students from there. So this year we've got more than 800 new Honors College students joining us from all over the world. So traditionally we've got somewhere between six and 700. So this year we're looking to a much bigger group.

Mark 01:05:36

Great, great. And talk to us about James Madison and Lyman Briggs. In fact, I just had one of my students visit you last week and, um, had a fantastic visit and they were very interested in these schools. So, uh, particularly the honors college.

And I also told them to check out Lyman Briggs.

John Ambrose 01:05:52

So James Madison and Lyman Briggs are two of three of our residential colleges. And residential colleges are a little different than residential programs. Residential colleges, you can actually earn a degree. And so students here, they enjoy discussion-based learning classes in James Madison and they're connected mostly through majors in the area of public policy and public affairs. But it's small class sizes. They've got access to advisors and faculty in the same building that they live in. There is a dining facility in that building. There's workout facility in that building. There's some additional classroom spaces that only they can occupy. And they get an opportunity to live in a community with individuals that are interested in that.

And so they typically do that their first year at Madison, but they can stay longer if they choose to. The Lyman Briggs, it's science focused in terms of that. And they've been around since 1967, but their focus is to connect the natural science and mathematics with humanities and social science. So these students get an opportunity. You heard me talk earlier about, we're about people. So this interdisciplinary piece that helps them, if you will, develop a different perspective on maybe the bedside manner or even the research side manner. So I think it's a really unique thing that they do, but students have an opportunity to be in smaller lecture hall classes as well as smaller lab classes because the majority of their classes, not all of them are taken at Holmes Hall where Lyman Briggs is house. But same kinds of things, access to faculty, access to advising, access to a residential dining hall, access to a workout facility. So you wake up late, you can roll out of bed, roll into class potentially in your pajamas just hopefully you brush your teeth.

Mark 01:07:56

Yeah, you got to brush the teeth if we want to get within eight feet of you.

John Ambrose 01:08:02

Absolutely, absolutely.

Mark 01:08:05

So John, almost 40% to research at Michigan State and almost 40% to study abroad. I mean, it's just amazing how, you know, improvements have been made in those areas since, since the eighties.

How do students get these opportunities? What's that process like?

John Ambrose 01:08:19

It's open to everybody, Mark. So we are doing everything. We want more students. I'd like to see this number go to 60%, 70% that our students are participating in these opportunities.

But you've got to fight the stigma a lot. And I think we've been doing that by word of mouth as students here. You don't have to speak English in order to go and study. I mean, you don't have to speak the language or native tongue of that country to go over and do study abroad. In almost every situation, English is taught on the campus in that particular class that you would be studying. Now, once you get off campus, it's a different story. But just being immersed in that different kind of culture. So we were number one for a while for public universities for study abroad. But we're still in the top 10 now. And so we continue to push that as a piece for students to do. But with the pandemic, that number dropped a bit. So we're hoping as we come out now in this vaccinated time that we're going to see more students going back into that and taking advantage of those opportunities.

We have scholarship money available for students depending on the program of study that they want to do. You can also do study away. So I don't know. Maybe you applied to Georgia Tech or something. And so you ended up coming to Michigan State. But you decide you'd like to go and study away for a semester at Georgia Tech. You can also do something like that in our study abroad program. In terms of research, we have an undergraduate research fair. And it's amazing to see the things that students are working on. So you don't just have to be in a science major to be working on a research project. And I think students are much more prepared for the world of work if they do research and they do study abroad or education abroad.

So if they do those two things before they leave MSU, I guarantee you those individuals will never look for a job. Love it, love it, love it. Just the ability to solve problems, break them down, come up with solutions, figure out how to find solutions to problems I think is incredible. And then with the education abroad, sometimes you don't know the full capacity of what you're capable of in terms of communication until you go to a country where you don't speak the tongue. And you've got to survive. You've got to figure it out, and you do. And I think you're always impressed with yourself when you come back from there and you go, you know what? I survived. I did that for three months. I didn't know anybody. I was there maybe with a few friends from the university. But what a great way to learn more about yourself and just expand and to grow not only your interests, but the thoughts about what you can do as a human.

Mark 01:11:10

Yeah. And it just shapes the whole, your whole worldview.

You know, it's just completely shaped from having more of my outpick to being more global. So you had mentioned before, uh, you know, being at the airport, go green, go white. It's funny, I, I just recently interviewed Steve Robinson, who's at Lansing community college. He's the president over there and, and, uh, he's a Michigan state alum and his kids are as well. And, and we talked about the same thing, you know, go green. He ended up my interview with me, go green, go white. So there's that thing about Michigan state, this school spirit. Um, it just gets in the blood, especially men's and men's basketball and football. Um, right now, obviously there's a tremendous buzz with metal Tucker and what's going on with football. Um, talk, talk to us a little bit about how that shapes the experience of students. Not only once they're at Michigan state, but even the bond it creates with alumni for the rest of their lives.

John Ambrose 01:12:07

When I was at Western, I fought hard to drive the spirit of the Broncos. And just I got an opportunity to visit Purdue and IU. And I came back on a mission that I wanted to try to invigorate that kind of an attitude on our campus. Because on any given day at Western, you could see students walking around with some other university shirt on.

And at Michigan State, that's a rare thing. You almost will never walk by anybody wearing anything but Michigan State. You will see a lot of students wearing Spartan gear. There are other college and campuses and universities you can go to. And you will pass a lot of students, but they will not be wearing the university gear. You may see the same experience of what I talked about at Western at different campuses. And I've experienced that, and I've seen it. I don't know where it emanates from, but that Spartan spirit is deep, and it is long. And as I've mentioned, no matter where you go, you're going to hear it, that go green. And when you hear it, you know your response from that call out is supposed to be go white. The impact that I think athletics has had on the Spartan nation has been incredible. We've seen institutions that have not quite had that. And all of a sudden, there's this huge surge in the spirit around the institution, like when Oakland University made it to the tournament. All of a sudden, Go Grizz or the Grizzlies were everywhere. You could see OU in a bunch of new places, and those alums started to really kind of come out of the woodwork, and we're proud to advertise their plays. Michigan State has been very fortunate to have Tom Izzo, and now Mel Tucker, and even our new athletic director, Alan Haller, to be a part of what is now this next move or next path in the journey for Spartan athletics. But you wanted to ask me how it impacts us. I've never seen, at least in my experience, as many fans that will travel, not just with men's basketball and football, but with women's hockey, or with the track team, or with the golf team. Spartans are fanatic for Spartans, and we support, and they support our athletics programs. So they would be nothing without the alums and the fans that support them. And I think for students who are looking for a college experience, you very much, when you think about college in the very simplest of terms, you think about going to a football game where the stadium is packed. You think about going to a basketball game where the stadium is packed. You come to Michigan State, you're gonna always be at a home game, the stadiums are going to be packed. When our Spartans are competing on the hardwood or out on the field, you're gonna see packed stadiums. And I think that's appealing to students. They want that to say that they were a part of something like that. Yeah, it's cool to be on ESPN and Game Day and all of that. We get our fair share of television time.

John Ambrose 01:15:33

We don't get what some of the other big schools get, but I think we get a fair share. And I'd like to see us get a little bit more as we move forward, but winning is required to do a lot of that.

And I think Mel Tucker and Coach Izzo give us a unique opportunity, because it's rare to be at an institution where you'll have a winning basketball coach and a winning football coach. So this is a great time to be a Spartan.

Mark 01:15:58

Yeah, and I'll tell you, I mean, not only was it tremendous fun for me, not only did it provide work-life balance, but you could go anywhere in the country. I could be in Portland, I could be in Seattle, I could be San Diego, you name it, San Antonio. You're going to find a, you could find a Michigan state sports bar. You could go watch a game and I'll tell you what, next thing you know, business cards are passed out and people are hooking up other Spartans.

I think it's very underrated. Um, the bond it, it creates. Uh, you mentioned Georgia Tech earlier. I've had conversations with Rick Clark, their, their undergrad director of missions about this too, because Georgia Tech for a high powered tech school, you know, they're going up against the MITs, the Carnegie Melons and Caltechs. They don't offer that, but there's this bond that it cements within the alumni. And it's actually really good for job networking, you know, as well.

John Ambrose 01:16:49

So you, you know, we've been talking about this whole thing with with people, right? So I was talking to a student and this just hit me. I was talking to a student the other day and we were talking about the tailgating at Michigan State versus with our friends down the road. And so she said, this was a student, she said, when I was looking at the two schools, my parents took me to a tailgate at both places. She said, at the Michigan State tailgate, every time we walked past anybody's party, they invited us in. That didn't happen down the road.

It's a friendly place. That spirit of friendship, opening up, offering food, offering drink, just being hospitable, just saying hi, just connected with people. That's the Spartan will. That's the Spartan spirit.

Mark 01:17:43

Well, that's a good place to, to, for us to transition to our lightning round, which is, you know, uh, John saw, this is like, what's this lightning round hot seat almost backed off my interview, but we have a tradition, no first time guests ever comes on your cause bound kid without going on the lightning round. So you, so you're ready. You got to trust me. You don't know where I'm going on this one. All right.

John Ambrose 01:18:04

All right, I'm ready, I'm ready. Okay.

Mark 01:18:06

If you had to live in a state other than Michigan, where would you live?

John Ambrose 01:18:10

It's not quite a state, but Washington, D.C., not there in North Carolina.

Mark 01:18:15

We'll count it. Hey, I've lost both my daughters to North Carolina. So Both went to college there and said I'm staying so yeah, what can I say?

I love it If a billionaire said I want to buy any car for you. You want John you've done amazing stuff from Michigan State You name it. It's it's yours to buy. What would you pick?

John Ambrose 01:18:36

I'm not a big car guy, but what would I pick? I probably picked the two seater convertible BMW.

Mark 01:18:43

There you go. There you go.

You might become a car guy if you had that. You can't, you can't be in education. You have to have something a completely different profession than education. What would you pick?

John Ambrose 01:18:58

mentoring or coaching.

Mark 01:19:00

There you go. There you go. Any sport? Any idea of the sport you coach? No, it would be professional coaching.

Oh, professional coaching. Professional coaching. There you go. There you go. There you go. Sounds a sneak way of doing education because you're still using those educational skills, but we'll let that count.

John Ambrose 01:19:18

You got to take your skills with you. You take your best assets and you make it work, man. You can cook it.

Mark 01:19:23

Indooring that mark learning applying that marketing and hospitality and all those skills over there. I see exactly

John Ambrose 01:19:30

You gotta be able to cook indoors and outdoors, man.

Mark 01:19:33

There you go. You could meet anybody in the world for lunch, alive or dead. Who do you, who you picking? I know that's a tough one.

Jesus Christ. There you go. There you go. It doesn't get better than that. I'd love to have lunch with Jesus. There you go. Awesome. Good stuff. Best restaurant in East Lansing. Someone says, I'm, I'm visiting this Michigan state. I really like what I've heard John say. Um, or do you recommend they grab a meal?

John Ambrose 01:20:00

They gotta do two stops. First one's gonna be Brody, just so that they can experience the dining facility.

The second one's gonna be just a good old Midwest hamburger at a place we call the Peanut Barrel.

Mark 01:20:16

How long has that been there?

John Ambrose 01:20:18

a good little while. I'm not sure I was there before.

Mark 01:20:21

be my memory. It could be my memory.

John Ambrose 01:20:23

It's on Grand River.

Mark 01:20:26

Grand River. That was the place.

John Ambrose 01:20:27

that. Well, people talk about crunchies too, but I'm a peanut barrel guy. I like their burger better.

Mark 01:20:34

Good stuff. You're making me hungry. And my last question for you, best advice for students, parents and college counselors. So it's my last one. So I get, I get a trifecta in.

John Ambrose 01:20:45

Best advice for students, be the young adult with your parents that you really want to be, which means you've got to change your behavior a little bit in order to get your parents to hear you. Parents, be better listeners of your students and start moving them towards the fringe you want them to be as an adult and not the child you expect them to be as an adult so that you can meet them halfway and help them make better decisions but clearly, the two are not always talking.

For best advice for guidance counselors, hang in there, self-care is important. Our work is tough, at times it's been called God's work but the reality is we often get a chance to see some things in the growth of our young people or our young scholars that others do not. So the rewards always outweigh the work. It's just a matter of putting in the work to see the reward, so hang in there. A lot of people are supporting you even though you don't see them or talk to them but I appreciate all of the work that they put in with our young people and the young scholars across the globe. The work again, it's not easy but we need people like them to encourage these young people who are a bit more fragile on the outside but they've got some scars on the inside. We can't always see, you know, you and I grew up with bicycles and we didn't have to wear helmets and knee pads and it shows on the outside but the kind of pain that they've experienced, we have to but theirs is a bit more intense just because of, you know, they're not used to a lot of things but they need good guidance counselors who will stand in the gap for them, tell them the truth and really help them along the way. So I know the work is tough. Oftentimes the loads are a little larger than you want them to be but keep leaning in and take care of everyone that you can even if you can't get them all, get what you can get.

Mark 01:22:43

John, this has been awesome and you've been most generous with your time. Um, you've been worth the wait since 2019. This is great. And I really appreciate it.

Um, could you, could you share Michigan state's website and anything else? Like sometimes people say, Oh, we've got a really good Instagram, you know, anything else that you think would be a good resource for people to get to know Michigan state better.

John Ambrose 01:23:08

admissions.msu.edu. From there you'll be able to springboard to anywhere on the university's web pages to really help you out in terms of figuring it out.

I think we've got a really good Instagram page so you can find MSU there with I think it's Michigan State and they can find it.

Mark 01:23:30

Question, are you either, are you going to do either NACAC or College Board or conferences?

John Ambrose 01:23:36

I am marking this new role. I am invested in the campus right now.

So okay, as we mentioned about communication earlier, I think it was Lauren that asked that question about, you know, the communication in the Autobots. Yes, it's important for me to make sure that that stuff is working for our constituent audience. So I'm gonna phase out and sit still for at least a year. And hopefully I'm gonna be able to get enough done that I can get back and be connected to the rest of you all. But I know you understand.

Mark 01:24:09

So most definitely most definitely well, it's gonna say I'll catch you on the road But I guess I just have to come to to EL and and see you at the home turf and come on East Lane

John Ambrose 01:24:18

and any day you want and let me know. And I'll get you over to the peanut barrel and I'll get you a rodeo burger, man.

Mark 01:24:27

I'm, I'm taking you up on that. You think I'm kidding. Awesome. Thanks, John. I really appreciate your time, my friend. All right. Thanks Mark. I appreciate it. Go green. Go white.

John Ambrose 01:24:38

See you next week.

DMU Timestamp: May 18, 2025 19:27